"Americans Have No Idea How Few Gay People There Are"

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/americans-have-no-idea-how-few-gay-people-there-are/257753/

"Surveys show a shockingly high fraction think a quarter of the country is gay or lesbian, when the reality is that it's probably less than 2 percent."

Interesting article

coffeebean,

your letter exemplifies everything I believe as well, thank you for showing what true Christianity is!

Shorter in the national news today on Huffington Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/trey-lyon/a-requiem-for-my-alma-mater_b_1556119.html?ref=religion&ir=Religion

"A Requiem for My Alma Mater"

by Trey Lyon, Adjunct Instructor of Religious Studies at Shorter University, 2006 to 2011

This letter exemplifies the closed-minded, insight-limited attitude of many of the so-called Christians in this area. While yes Shorter may be private and can do what they please - that doesn't mean this is a good policy or even one they should implement for that matter. I've always been told you shouldn't do something just because you can! While many Christians consider homosexuality, alcoholism, and adultery as part of the same cluster of contagions, the truth is they are not. Whether you consider them lifestyle choices, mistakes, sins, evil, etc., no one individual or group should have the right to dictate how another person lives. We all have issues and all commit sins. I grew up here in the church, moved away for many years, and have now moved back and I still marvel at the inability of the the people here to just live and let live. The Christ I came to know would be appalled at the mission of the "Christians" to exile, cast out, or in any other way demean and belittle those that have been labeled "different". Christ created us all - the drinker, fornicator, homosexual, envious, glutton, sinners in all forms - and we have an obligation to love and support all; if there is judgement to be done, it will be done by the heavenly father. You don't have to participate in the offending behavior, but you certainly should not be holding yourself up as better than, especially when you choose to use hate and intolerance as a means to deal with anything that doesn't fit your interpretation of "normal" and "God-like"; you are but one in a sea of millions - live your best life and let others live theirs. Treat others with respect, as you would be treated; we can all live together in the same community in peace - what a concept!

Growing up I never understood how people could attend church every Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, revival, Bible school, etc., and yet when out in the community fill their time talking about, passing judgement and criticizing others in the church and/or community - I can only imagine that a loving God is horrified by the small-minded "followers" claiming to do his work and live his example (I don't believe that is what he had in mind). The hate and bigotry (neither of which are God-like attributes) in this area, whether related to sexual orientation, race, etc., is palpable - I submit you should pray.

If we all just live OUR own lives and stop trying to control someone else's, we could all be better people living a more fulfilled life.

Just FYI, I am not a drinker, fornicator, adulterer or homosexual, but I have love and acceptance for them all - it's not the life I would lead, but I am not afraid of living in a world with them and I believe that my Christian faith is working well when I can love and accept all sinners (the gossips and hypocrites included) and work on being a better ME rather than trying to make a better YOU.

MWVWMNMWVWM,

I disagree with your comments to twb024 and feel they understood your intentions correctly.

Your post was an attempt to compare a minority with a vile and disgusting mental disorder.

All in the name of justifying the withholding of civil rights to that minority.

The Christian right uses this technique frequently to bolster support and increase the emotional response of their followers.

Rhuidean

Recent Shorter coverage:

Baptists Today:

http://www.baptiststoday.org/cartledge-blog/2012/5/21/brains-in-chains.html#comments

News in Faith:

http://www.newsinfaith.com/?p=4096

TO: MWVWMNMWVWM,

for you to compared homosexuality to pedophila is ridiculous and shows why most of your post are deleted!

Shorter's senior leadership -- can someone bring me up to date?

Shorter's organizational chart looks like it's out of date:

http://www.shorter.edu/about/organizational_chart.pdf

It still shows Dr. Craig Shull as Provost, the head person over all academics (teachers, dean, etc). Reportedly he steps down later this week although he is still listed on the organizational chart as Provost and he is still the person on the Provost web page:

http://www.shorter.edu/academics/provost/provost_message.htm

His sudden retirement was reported last week on Hometown Headlines but the RN-T has so far not reported on the change or what will happen afterwards?

The University's news page makes no mention of his retirement or who will take over as interim Provost later this week:

http://www.shorter.edu/about/news/news_home.htm

The new Executive Vice President, Dr. Donald Martin, is not shown in the chart:

http://www.shorter.edu/about/news/2012/05_11_12_donald_martin.htm

His responsibilities as described earlier this month don't include the Provost's job.

There's no opening for Provost listed on Shorter's web site:

http://www.shorter.edu/about/hr_employment.htm

There's no listing anywhere I can find of who's on the search committee for the new Provost.

The Provost is normally the #2 person in charge of a University so this is a very important change at Shorter.

After several weeks, Shorter still is not publishing their list of Trustees:

http://www.shorter.edu/about/board_of_trustees.html

Does anyone know why not? Can someone say who's currently on the Board?

Supposedly, Mayor Evie McNiece was listed in the May graduation program as a Trustee -- can someone maybe list the other people that were on the program?

Thanks for any light folks can shed on this stuff.

MWVWMNMWVWM,

You asked: Do you think homosexuality is normal?

I reply: Yes Homosexuality is one of many normal human conditions. My opinion is backed up by the American Psychological and Psychiatric Associations whom refute the idea that being Gay is a mental disorder.

The dictionary defines normal as :

approximately average in any psychological trait, as intelligence, personality, or emotional adjustment.

b. free from any mental disorder; sane.

BTW who gets to classify normal anyway?

Would it be those who used to beat left handed children for using the hand of Satan?

Would it be those who strapped women down and preformed forced sterilization?

Would it be those who screamed that "Good order and discipline would fail if we let gays serve openly in the military?

Would it be those who sreamed that "Good order and Discipline would fail if we let African Americans integrate the military?

Being gay is just another genetic variation that we are born with.

Way back in Freshman biology i learned we are all born with certain genetic preferences. However we humans are all the product of our life experiences and environment.

So yes being gay is simply one of countless versions of normal.

BTW Internet here in Iraq is spotty so do not think simply because i do not answer within a couple of hours i have left the debate.

Rhuidean

Hi Anonymous and Rosebush, in the book of Acts chapter 17, Paul the apostle was sharing the gospel of Christ to the people of Berea. These people were very open to receive truth but they didn't just believe it because a man told them it was true. They searched the scriptures for themselves to see if what they were being told was true....thus...a true BEREAN. So many voices are telling us what to think and believe and we must search the scripture for our selves.

JustMyOpinion,

Thank You for a well written and thoughtful comment. I do however have some thoughts on parts of it.

You wrote: Shorter University is a private institution. Private. That means that they can pretty much write their own rules and have every expectation that those who want to be a part of Shorter follow them. Whether that means no homosexuals, for the staff to be "positive" rolemodels for the students, or whatever it's their call. Because they are private. Like Augusta National is private and can say "boys only". Where is the hysterical outcry there? Sure, every year we hear some commentary, but at the end of the day we still see "the boys" playing golf on CBS every year.

I reply: You are correct in your statement that Augusta National practices bigotry. However there are subtle differences such as Augusta does not require it's members to sign statements hating women or regulating it's interactions with said women. Still just like any private institution is has the right to discriminate.

I believe i have stated that numerous times.

You WroteWhat a bunch of hypocritical people some of you are. Sure, it's ok to for the Shorter staff to drink, smoke, have public orgies, and live a homosexual lifestyle. When was the last time you heard of an elementary school or middle school or even high school teacher who does any of that and still has a job. I know someone who works for the school system in Rome that truly has to live a secret life, because he is gay and wants to keep his job working with children. How many of you holier than thou Shorter haters would call the superintendent and complain if you went to Chili's and saw your first grader's teacher drunk at the bar on a Tuesday night. Be honest with yourself.

I reply: I completely concur with the hypocrisy of the religious right and the Southern Baptists in particular.

You Wrote:To those hate Christians or religion in general....ok we get it. Stop shoving your anti-Christian rhetoric down our throats the same way you accuse Christians of doing the same. If you don't believe that "Christ actually existed" as someone here has stated, then ok. Just stop putting up a Christmas tree every year and stay out of Wal-Mart the day after Thanksgiving in your continued protest please. And make sure that any Christmas present you receive is refused, and you become enraged at your employer and quit because they choose to close the business and give you a paid vacation day on the the observance of "Christ who did not exist"'s birth. You are either all in or you are not.

I reply: Since i am the only commenter who has publicly challenged Christ's existence this statement probably refers to me.

Have you read the numerous letters from the religious Shorter supporters? Here's a sampling of their greatest Hits.

"There are many, many people in the world today who say they are Christians but they are not. God does not accept aneir sins, asks Jesus Christ to come into their heart, and make him Lord of their life. Then God will accept that person as a blood-bought child of His.

Assistant professors of theater, set designers and deans of schools of nursing are a dime a dozen. But there is only one Lord; Jesus Christ.Any person who has a problem with the statement of faith at Shorter University is not a Christian. It does not matter if you are administration, faculty or students — present or past"

And my personal favorite:

" God is not a politician — he says what he means and means what he says. Therefore we should take what the Bible says and live accordingly. That’s really what being a Christian means. But many people who claim to be Christian want to live according to their own ways and pleasures instead of what God says

if you can you get religious people to stop trying to judge those of a differing viewpoint and attempting to influence government to do it for them when they fail to get the results they desire i will lessen my barbs and sarcasm.

The fundamentalist right Christians want to impose their version of reality on us all. I think that version to be hypocritical and frankly hate filled.

Now my pointing this our repeatedly has Christians in an uproar.

To them it's egregious that anyone dare ask how Leviticus applies when verses of the bible supporting vile things like slavery, incest, murder, genocide are ignored.

No...... I believe this is all needing cover for gay hating.....

It's hypocritical at best and outright racist at worst.

Why just the mere fact of my making this argument sends the faithful in to spasms. It's as if they never had anyone every dare to challenge this lunacy.

But in the real world outside some church in Silver Creek we require more of an answer than "God says so"

You Wrote:We all have opinions and beliefs. America was founded (yes by Christians but somehow we've made it a few hunderd years or so) on the principle that people should be able to have open and civilized discourse on those opinions and beliefs. Whether it be the freedom to practice one's religion or freedom to pursue your personal version of life, liberty, and happiness. If Shorter as a private institution has decided to not allow a certain group of people into their ranks, regardless of their intelligence and of their ability as a teacher, and with the foreknowledge they will loose staff, students, and their reputation as a institute of higher education, then that is their decision and we should repect it and move on.

I reply: I agree that Shorter has made their beds with this faith statement. The students and faculty will judge this event by staying or going. Tuition will rise or fall because at it's core Shorter is a business.

Now we are not required to respect the decision and have every right to comment on it.

Shorter supporters however think that now that the decision is made then we should just shut up.....Well that's not gonna happen.

Rhuidean

There's an enteresting thing about God's grace that magnifies the amazing love

Jesus has for us. It's that we CAN'T earn it...we can not do enough good works to

get into God's favor and we can not fall out of it so easily either.

Coming to Jesus and acknowledging we are sinners and need His forgiveness is

absolutely essential. If not for His sacrifice on the cross for us we would have

no chance of salvation...ever.

But to say a christian can not be a child of God and still have issues of sin in

their life that must be worked on and gotten rid of is to say every parent who

has a rebellious child in their house no longer loves or wants that child.

God has a father's heart. He is our father. Loving us through our less than

glorious actions is what He does best. I applaud all christians who stand up for

morality but I ask all christians of BEREAN status ( you know who you are ) to

carefully search the greek and hebrew backgrounds of the present day scriptures

used against decent gay people who just want to serve Jesus like everyone else.

If you honestly do so, you will be surprised at what you find.

There are many blood bought children of God and those also those who have not met

Jesus yet who feel attracted to the same sex. They always have. They always will.

There are also many perverts....Don't confuse the two. They are not the same.

The issue is the heart. It has always been the heart. Jesus Himself said that

what's in a man's heart defines the man. ( See Mathew 5:27 ) Really? Can any man

not fall in this categorie? How about some other scripture? 1 Samuel 16:7 God

only looks at the heart.

You know, I could go on and on but this is not about fighting. It's about

understanding grace, having a Berean heart to search the scriptures and loving

people. Until you've been there, you ain't been there and until you've lived it

you have no voice.

Shorter...I applaud your stand for Christ. However, I am deeply saddened for all

the pain you are causing in choosing to throw grace away and only give it to whom

you consider worthy.

I have no opinion one way or the other concerning Shorter or any of the people posting here. EXCEPT, the RNT seems to allow all sorts of name calling and bashing on this commentary but won't allow comments on arrest reports. I just don't get it. It's OK or it isn't.

I've been reading this for several days and a few thoughts continue to come to mind:

1. Shorter University is a private institution. Private. That means that they can pretty much write their own rules and have every expectation that those who want to be a part of Shorter follow them. Whether that means no homosexuals, for the staff to be "positive" rolemodels for the students, or whatever it's their call. Because they are private. Like Augusta National is private and can say "boys only". Where is the hysterical outcry there? Sure, every year we hear some commentary, but at the end of the day we still see "the boys" playing golf on CBS every year.

2. What a bunch of hypocritical people some of you are. Sure, it's ok to for the Shorter staff to drink, smoke, have public orgies, and live a homosexual lifestyle. When was the last time you heard of an elementary school or middle school or even high school teacher who does any of that and still has a job. I know someone who works for the school system in Rome that truly has to live a secret life, because he is gay and wants to keep his job working with children. How many of you holier than thou Shorter haters would call the superintendent and complain if you went to Chili's and saw your first grader's teacher drunk at the bar on a Tuesday night. Be honest with yourself.

3. To those hate Christians or religion in general....ok we get it. Stop shoving your anti-Christian rhetoric down our throats the same way you accuse Christians of doing the same. If you don't believe that "Christ actually existed" as someone here has stated, then ok. Just stop putting up a Christmas tree every year and stay out of Wal-Mart the day after Thanksgiving in your continued protest please. And make sure that any Christmas present you receive is refused, and you become enraged at your employer and quit because they choose to close the business and give you a paid vacation day on the the observance of "Christ who did not exist"'s birth. You are either all in or you are not.

.

We all have opinions and beliefs. America was founded (yes by Christians but somehow we've made it a few hunderd years or so) on the principle that people should be able to have open and civilized discourse on those opinions and beliefs. Whether it be the freedom to practice one's religion or freedom to pursue your personal version of life, liberty, and happiness. If Shorter as a private institution has decided to not allow a certain group of people into their ranks, regardless of their intelligence and of their ability as a teacher, and with the foreknowledge they will loose staff, students, and their reputation as a institute of higher education, then that is their decision and we should repect it and move on.

The new test for any teacher or administrator at Shorter will be to take the person who applies to the Coosa River and have them walk on water. If he cannot, no job. The thing about funamentalists is they always forget the warnings by Jesus about passing judgement on others.

Almost_Anonymous.

Thanks for posting the link to the AJC column. It was a very good read.

Proud2bliberal,

I regret exactly none of my postings and stand by my views. If you were to read my comments over the last two years you would see a central theme regarding religion.

Very simply it's that religion has NO place in government. NONE...Those of whatever religious beliefs are completely free to worship as they please. I do not care.

However when religious people attempt to impose their belief system on others in the name of "God" or condemn gays because "God" says so i take issue.

Shorter's personal faith statement while legal at a private institution is bigotry enshrined under cover of the Christian religion.

That is the issue all the debate is about.......

Not what you or I believe......Shorter's actions are a tangible wrong being perpetrated....

The author of the letter we are debating stated. "Assistant professors of theater, set designers and deans of schools of nursing are a dime a dozen. But there is only one Lord; Jesus Christ. Any person who has a problem with the statement of faith at Shorter University is not a Christian. It does not matter if you are administration, faculty or students — present or past."

I know many Hindu's, Muslins, Sikhs, Buddhists who strongly disagree with the whole Jesus is lord thing.

BTW There is strong evidence that Jesus never existed....

You have pastors recommending "penning up the Gays and Lesbians up" till they die out, Christians calling for Gays to just die, Ministers stating that Gays are perverted and cannot possibly provide a good home.

State legislators all over the country frantically passing laws that dictate what a woman can do with their own bodies....All the while enthusiastically cheered on by pastors, bishops and supposed men of god.

When you watch congressmen compare gays with dog litters and his Christian audience cheering and another state legislator state " “hey, you have to have moral values,” when advised that the law just passed with result in women's deaths.

I think the Christian right should be referred to in much stronger terms than Bible thumpers, God Botherers, and such.

If you turn on your television Sunday Morning in Rome...You will find a plethora of ministers shouting out what "GAWD" demands of you.

So i think my descriptions appropriate.

None of the Christians howling the loudest can even articulate why it's OK to completely ignore parts of the bible yet embrace Leviticus.

As for your ranting about the 99% and such....Tell me....Where is the OWC camp in Rome?

I was there a couple of months ago and somehow completely missed it.....

90% of Romans as part of the 99%.....You do know that don't you?

So whats your point?

Rhuidean

Shorter's #2 is stepping down next week?

Hometown Headlines is reporting the Provost, Dr. Craig Shull, is stepping down.

http://www.hometownheadlines.com/

Is this true? A resignation reception in less than a week seems rushed -- normally college provosts announce their resignations months in advance.

Does anyone know what's going on?

If he's leaving, does anyone know who's taking his place?

You'd think the college would put out some announcement.

I'm starting to get worried about Shorter.

More Shorter coverage in the AJC:

"A Georgia college president weighs in on Shorter controversy: Believers v. non believers"

http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?cxntfid=blogs_get_schooled_blog

Proud2bliberal,

You are mistaking my comments regarding Chistians proposed policies as attacking them personally.

It's never personal.

Now..... Riddle me this..

How is your flailing rant any different any different from those of the bible thumpers?

You got your fee fees hurt because I try to explain tolerance to those of a religion whose central tenant is ..Tolerance..

All the while said religious persons are engaging in bigotry and hateful speech. Ironic don't you think?

Rhuidean

Shorter in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution today:

"No premarital or gay sex. No adultery. No public drinking. No faculty at Shorter University?"

http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2012/05/24/is-faculty-fleeing-shorter-college-because-of-no-premarital-or-homosexual-sex-no-public-drinking-edict/?cp=1#comment-201798