Yep,

The document you asked about is from the treaty of Tripoli.

it was "Authored by American diplomat Joel Barlow in 1796, the following treaty was sent to the floor of the Senate, June 7, 1797, where it was read aloud in its entirety and unanimously approved. John Adams, having seen the treaty, signed it and proudly proclaimed it to the Nation."

Mind you these are the guys who fought the revolution, and wrote the constitution.

But hey if the fundies want to believe in a fantasy Oh Well.

Rhuidean

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

The seperation of church and state is taken from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist church in 1802. They tried to make it law a few times in congress but it always failed the vote. So taking it from a letter written to a church the supreme court ruled it to be the meaning of the law. The supreme court over stepped IMO because only a few years before this ruling the bill had failed again in congress.

I always struggle with responding because I want to be respectful but I find this forum full of old farts with outdated words or maybe new farts with soon to be ignored words. Does no one have a word of wisdom to impart or is everyone like a raging demon...ready to attack? This forum is full of people with nothing to say but hate. Why is that? There are tons of churches here...are any of you going? I am not...why? After listening to all of of you, why should I?

Boy the twisters never seem to read. Hartwell called upon Christians to stand up, not for the government to do our standing for us. This is a Christian nation by choice of the majority of people not by law or decree from the king. The twisters common to this site would rather Christians not be allowed to vote or take part in any way based on their interpretation of this wall of separation.

Hartwell, I have know you and seen your bigoted comments made in private and public for- oh - fifty years now. Nowhere is the United States shown to be a christian nation in founding documents. Your well-touted 'under god' comment in the Pledge of Alleigiance was not added until 1954. I don't stomp on your view, but don't attempt to force yours down my throat.

Hartwell,

I see you need to take a course in reading comprehension as you clearly do not understand what the words of the constitution mean.

Before I begin my remedial course in Junior High School Civics i would make a point.

Your letter advocates that America become a Christian Theocracy...

There are numerous Theocracies throughout the world. Maybe you have heard of some of some of them.

Saudi Arabia: Women must wear the full Burkha and Hijab. People suspected of "Sorcery or Witchcraft are executed. Women are the property of their fathers until marriage then they become property of their husbands.

Iran: See the above

Afghanistan: Did you know the Taliban completely agreed with you and was a Theocracy?

You Wrote: There is no such thing as separation of church and state written into our Constitution.

I reply: Do you not understand the words “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”

This means that congress has no authority to make ANY laws giving religion authority or government support.

Sounds like a wall between the two to me.....

But Idiots and quacks like David Barton try to twist the meaning around and generally confuse people.

So here's some additional reference material from the guy who wrote the declaration of Independence and Virginia's act for establishing religious freedom.

Maybe you have heard of him...His name is Thomas Jefferson.

In 1802 Jefferson sent a letter to the Danbury Connecticut Baptist's. He stated: " I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State"

Notice the words Wall of Separation.

In 1797 after the defeat of the Barbury pirates the treaty of Tripoli was signed.

These are the words of the treaty that were read aloud on the floor of the US Senate.

" As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.

These words received unanimous agreement and a standing ovation.

So your entire premise is flawed.

Rhuidean

The genious of our Constitution is that It protects the Rights of the Minority...the U.S.A is becoming more diverse and other religions are gaining more adherents...that's just a fact in our demographics. Aren't you glad that we Christians will be PROTECTED by the Constitution once adherents to Christianity become the minority in this nation?



We Christians do not need the force of Government to convert others to Christianity....in fact, government-backed Christianity is anathema! You CANNOT force people, under threat of government to follow Jesus and make Him Lord of one's heart.

It seems to me that the TP'ers and others want the Government out of their lives in all aspects, except religion. I truly don't understand it. I thought that one of the reasons for our founding was religious freedom and if "politics" gets involved... My "church work" keeps me so busy with things directly from the Bible that I don't need to add some political requirements.

Mr. Nolan. Just which variety of Christian Religions, and there are hundreds, would you like our country to adopt. You probably would not like my beliefs anymore than I like yours. Christians throughout history when given political power, have killed other Christian men, women and children in ways that would make Hitler blush. I want to keep Christianity away from politics and so did Jesus. As my Daddy said if you sleep with dogs you will get fleas. My Daddy said that all politicans were crooks and those that hid behind the Bible were the worst crooks.

Oh, I see you have been reading David Barton. I am so sorry that you have allowed him to lead you astray. Please read the words of the Founding Fathers, and pay special attention to those of Thomas Jefferson.

If the Founders had intended this to be a "Christian nation" then they would have been explicit about it in the Constitution. While the words "separation of church and state" may not appear in the Constitution, its meaning and purpose were well-known to the men who wrote that document and established our nation.

Mr. Nolan:

Under your ideology, you're certainly not going to vote for a Mormon bishop, are you?

If all you religious fanatics would just spend a little more time developing a full and rewarding and positive life here on earth, maybe you wouldn't be so morbidly focused on other people's lives and getting into "Heaven".

I pay taxes. I don't want your version of religious crammed down my throat. So mind your own business.

Because we do not want to be forced to pray to your gods. Stopped believing in them about the same time I stopped believing in the tooth fairy, easter bunny and Santa Claus

And believe it or not christianity is not the only religion. Will you defend and give equal rights for the following to lead prayer in your schools and gov. meetings? Islam, Judaism, the Bahá'í Faith, Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Taoism, Sikhism, and Wicca just to name a few of the major religions with a million or more followers.

The one thing that really bugs me about this whole religion thing is your rights and abilities to pray to what ever deity it is you wish to believe has never been taken away. The only thing that is prohibit is giving one religious group the ability to push their belief onto some one else.

As far as churches having a say in gov. fine give up that 501 status. And sorry I so not see any where in the Constitutions that declares this country a "Christian" nation. Actulay you said it, Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion which means that Congress can not declare an official religion.

Oh Shannon you poor poor victim. Please, write another letter informing us of all the horrible injustices you've had to endure.

Of course you're also free to move to Iran or Saudi Arabia where religion is intertwined with the government.

Also, you should probably know that the "separation of church and state" is written into the constitution and has been confirmed in numerous court decisions. It's a precedent stronger than almost any other.

I think most importantly you should learn why this is the case. If there is such a thing as the 'American Spirit' I'd imagine that it would entail protecting the rights of all Americans, not vying for one's own self interests and preservation.